Been wondering about both courses lately, maybe some of yunz can chime in on this.
Is one any harder than the other? Is it a general rule that you will run slower at Leadville than Western?
What's more impressive, Matt's 15:42:19 or Geoff's 15:07:04?
Ann Trason holds both women's records, 18:06 at Pb and 17:37 at Western.
Looking at those times, is it fair to say that Leadville is about half an hour slower than Western?
What would get one more ultra groupies, the sub 24 buckle at Western or the big buckle at Leadville?
Can Western compete at all with the Leadville finish line - which boasts at least five dive bars within half a mile? I mean, Tony got yelled at for drinking a PBR at the Western finish. I can't imagine any scenario where you would get in trouble for drinking beer in Leadville...
14 comments:
What's the elevation gain / loss on each?
Average altitude?
Average temp?
I look forward to you beating my time at Pb. That being said, I hope you enjoy the race as much as I did while getting my time :)
I am not scared, but we will have to step up some wagers pre-race!!
I've done both, albeit relatively slowly. To some extent it's apples and oranges. WS has tons of down and the heat in the canyons. As you know, Lead has the altitude and the huge temp changes. Nonetheless, I will take Carpenter's time and Leadville's bars any day. I may be getting old, but I would rather finish a 100 miler on the nation's highest main street than on a high school track at seal level.
Sweet question!
My vote is for Leadville. The big buckle is much more coveted to me.
From what I know, Western is about dealing with the heat and Leadville is about dealing with the altitude.
My vote is definitely for Leadville. How cool can Western possibly be if they make you get into a boat for the river crossing?
Another question: how fast would Matt C have run had he been sporting long hair, a beard, and compression socks? Not sure my feeble mind can comprehend something so awesome...
I think a cool thought is how certain runners do across different races. Matt C at the highs of Leadville and the low altitude of NF 50 champs, Anton in Ldville and on the flats of American River (and Western), and Roes killing every course he steps on, flat, high, hilly, low, rocky, smooth, whatever.
As much as I appreciate folks specializing in distances and terrain, I love seeing runners adapt at high levels of competition in wide ranges of events.
Nice post, JT.
My take on your questions:
They're about the same in terms of "difficulty", but with each having different challenges (heat and downhill vs. altitude, mostly). I think mid- and even front-packers will generally be more like 50-60min slower at Pb, mostly because most people aren't well acclimated to 10k+'. But, I also think that 15:07 and 15:42 are pretty equal at the two venues. I know for sure that my 15:13 at WS was a "faster" time than 16:14 at Pb.
Bottom line. you're going to get more groupies with a WS 24hr belt buckle. WS was the first 100 and it's still the most-watched/hyped. There's way more excitement and media at WS. Having said that, Pb is a very clear second in these categories. You can talk about HRH or Wasatch or AC or whatever, but the fact of the matter is that WS and Pb are both way way way ahead of every other North American 100 miler in terms of the electricity and buzz at the start and finish lines and along the course throughout the day. I hear rumors about 900 people at Pb's start line this year--that's plain awesome and a huge plus for Pb's course: there's no permit limit.
Having said that, the finish lines are way different between the two. At WS: lots of people, lots of media, no food, no beer, 100F in the shade, high school track. At Pb: a solid gathering of people, a couple different newspapers, someone might ask the winner a few interview-like questions, a tent full of food, Merilee will offer to buy you a beer, somewhere between 30F and 70F, and HIGHEST MAIN STREET IN AMERICA, baby! This last bit is the key: the whole town shuts down/gets psyched about the 100 miler. Auburn does this, too, to an extent, but Main St isn't shut down for you.
The competition is far and away better at WS, so I really like that, but Pb is like a second hometown to me and it has one of the best mountain backdrops in the country, which is pretty tough for me to deny.
Results: DRAW.
Also: Pb's pre-race meeting and awards ceremony absolutely kicks the shit out of WS's. Ken is a border-line evangelical nut when it comes to motivation and he emcees the whole weekend with hysterical enthusiasm and emotion for every runner. WS is much more subdued/good ol' boy-ish with little fanfare at the awards ceremony itself. Pb's awards almost feels like a party, which is tough to pull off when everyone there has just wrung there body through 100 miles.
Just my observation.
Terrific insight, Tony. Makes me want to sign up for Leadville!
Not only is it hard to compare one race to another, sometimes you can't even compare the same race from one year to the next. That's why it was great to see so many go head to head this year at Western. Maybe they can all come back next year to Pb and throw Matt C into the mix as well.
Which was better? Matt C's Leadville or Roes (or Anton) at Western? Won't really matter after Brownie lays down a sub 15 at Pb 2010.
I've run neither. I don't plan to run either in the foreseeable future. That being said, if i chose one, I've always felt more of a draw towards WS than PB. Not sure why other than its the original and the story on how it came about is just awesome. I guess it's personal choice.
But you asked four questions... answers are as follows:
1- Neither is harder. Per other comments, they're very different, so can't be compared that way.
2- More impressive? I can't answer this.
3- I don't think you can take the winning times and decide which one is faster. I think you have to be more scientific about it, with standard deviations, and all kinds of other math stuff that I can't tell you how to do.
4- Finally... the most important questions. one will get you hot california beach blonde chicks, the other will get you cute and fit mountain women. Guess it comes down to a matter of taste. Then again, ,the WS buckle has a cougar/panther on it to make you look extra cool, while the leadville one is a moutain with a 100 on it. It think female groupies will gravitate towards the guy with the feline , whereas all those men you covet will love your mountain buckle.
www.realendurance.com will allow you to compare the finishing times...
I believe this is a question of Beer v No Beer. And is that really a question?
On non 100's: this is pretty much most of the reason why I'm going back to run Steamboat again... It finishes at their Oktoberfest...
Fantastic comments by all. The other morning I geeked out for about 5 mins over a similar topic. As a 2010 grand slam runner, I was curious how much slower (or faster?) Grand Slam runners finish Leadville vs. WS. So I quickly copied and sorted the raw data available at run100s.com and came up with thus: historically, among runners who finished all GS races, as of last year, run Leadville on average 3.65% slower than WS. Take from this what you like. Obviously GS runners also run Vermont in between, and possibly other races, so it is not a true measure of which is more difficult: WS vs. Leadville. I just said I recently geeked out over a similar topic and thought others might enjoy this stat.
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